EP 15 // Mike Kittleson

[00:00:00] Speaker A: What's up, you guys? Michael with the prop perform podcast episode number 14. Our guest today is Mike Kittleson, a very successful recruiter, but man, does he share a lot on his past. He discusses a previous felony he had at a very young age, how he overcame a very trialing time of his life, and how he has really become successful in his endeavors as a businessman, entrepreneur, father, husband, and much more. Excited for you guys to hear this amazing episode. What's up, you guys? Michael, straight here with the proper form podcast episode number 15. This is season two and goodness, I actually kind of blanket on what episode it is of season two, but totally is episode 15. Excited for this. I've actually got a good. I would consider friend and mentor. Hey, yo. Dropping the water. That's cool. Mike Kittleson, he is actually a client of ours over at Luxury Lifestyle Training. He's worked with me for years now. Golly. Like I don't know, 20. At least 20. 18. [00:01:16] Speaker B: Yep. [00:01:17] Speaker A: Like six years plus almost. We've got a lot of history together. I've learned a lot of wisdom, a lot of dad jokes and a lot of other jokes that probably won't share here with Mike, man. Thanks for being here today, man. [00:01:31] Speaker B: Absolutely. I really appreciate you having me. Yeah, it's an honor. And I'm glad we decided to coordinate our wardrobes here. [00:01:38] Speaker A: The black shirt thing, rocking the black polos and I got black jeans. You got kind of like a charcoal good looking jean. [00:01:43] Speaker B: But I figured I got to look as slim as possible. Since you're my trainer, I wanted to kind of show off your work, you know? [00:01:49] Speaker A: Thank you. Shout out. [00:01:50] Speaker B: Yeah, may have to kind of Photoshop that later there, but yeah, yeah, we could do that. [00:01:54] Speaker A: Michael is really. Michael Child's really good at that. Um, but man, so I. We're going to kind of adjust a little bit of kind of the layout with the podcast. We want to kind of get right into some really cool things that a lot of our guests just have a lot of wisdom and value. Experience failures and successes in. And Mike has a pretty amazing story. Um, Mike is. Doesn't look probably as old as he is. How 57? [00:02:18] Speaker B: 55. [00:02:19] Speaker A: 55. Gosh, I'm sorry. [00:02:21] Speaker B: Yeah, the speed limit back in the 1980s. [00:02:24] Speaker A: There you go. Yeah. So 55 and looking shredded. I'm definitely hoping that I look still in as good a shape as you when I'm 55. That is a compliment. Not back to me, but to your work ethic and your drive. [00:02:37] Speaker B: You definitely participated in helping me stay in shape. So thank you. Yes. [00:02:41] Speaker A: And we've talked about training age. Training age is like, even though you might have someone that's 6 years old or 10 year old, how long have they been working out? Your training age is Even though you're 55, you've really been working out like your whole life, right? [00:02:55] Speaker B: Yes. Basically since about age of 12, 13. [00:03:01] Speaker C: Yep. [00:03:01] Speaker B: Yep. So there's just kind of a lifestyle. It's not a. Yeah. It's not a temporary thing. It's just sort of a part of life, like eating and drinking water and eating and sleeping, working out. It's just kind of what it is now. [00:03:12] Speaker A: You know, there's validity in just your consistency in that. Absolutely. And so that that helps obviously play a role in your physique, your appearance, your strength, your consistency with your working out, your lifestyle. [00:03:26] Speaker B: So your confidence, your attitude, your drive, I really think it's important not to plug that, but I will because it's true. I'm fully convinced that, you know, it's kind of like Newton's third law of motion, which for any scientists out there, I'm probably about to mess this up. But it's an object at rest stays at rest and an object in motion stays in motion. So if you continue to move around, you continue to work out, you continue to take care of yourself, all you're doing is increasing your activity to do more and more of that. So if you're going to be productive in anything in life, I feel like you got to stay, you got to keep that brain and body moving because it's built to move, it's not built to sit. [00:04:09] Speaker A: Amen. For sure. Yeah, we've got a lot of clientele that is of an older demographic. I'm not referring to you in this sector, but that is getting closer to retirement. And, you know, they're thinking about retiring. And one of my other clients in the gym says, well, even if you retire, you still gotta have purpose. Like, what's your purpose even post retiring? And that could be investing into your kids or your grandkids or helping. Like, you know, for my dad, for example, retiring soon, assisting and helping alongside me with his wisdom and business as I build my businesses. So I think there's a lot of. [00:04:43] Speaker B: Value there too, 100% actually. You know, you're right. I think the purpose thing is really important because, you know, there's a. This is a quote from a guy named Mark Batterson, who I really like. He's a pastor, he's written a lot of books. But this particular quote, I've never Forgotten. And it's. The purpose of life is not to arrive safely at death. So I feel like a lot of people work to retire and then they, when they hit that, they, they, they don't know what to do with themselves, you know, and we weren't. There's no retirement in the Bible. There's no retirement age. You know, countries have retirement ages. But in the end, you know, you, you really should never retire from life. You should have a purpose and a plan and something that you're passionate about until the day you die, you know, whatever that is. And I play a game with people all the time on this. I'm like, if you woke up tomorrow and you had a hundred million dollars in your bank account and that's an arbitrary number, it could be less. But let's go big. [00:05:42] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:05:44] Speaker B: What would you do today? Because whatever that is is probably what you should be doing today. Because if you're only chasing money, you know, in the end you're probably not going to be as happy when you get it. But if you're chasing something you really love and you're doing what you feel is energizing you, you're going to be able to do that, you know, the rest of your life. You know, I've never seen anybody great at something they hated. Never. [00:06:12] Speaker A: So that's awesome. [00:06:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:06:14] Speaker A: I mean, speaking about kind of going all in on some stuff and kind of really pivoting to the younger Mike Hiddleston, something that you got at a lot younger age I would love for you to share more on is how you kind of got a felony at a younger age and kind of what happened there. How did that possibly define some of the self identity that you put onto yourself? Or how did it help shift a lot of your kind of experience and drive into your career, which I would like to talk after you share a little bit. [00:06:46] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. I'll start by saying that the. And this is true with all of us. And again, I'm 55 and this happened when I was 19. I was actually 18. The felony conviction. [00:06:59] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:07:00] Speaker B: Was when I was 19. But if you, if you look at your life and you look back and say, man, these are the hardest times and these were the worst things that ever happened to me. Those double as the greatest things that ever happened to you. And so, you know, kites don't rise with the win, they rise against it. So the more pushback you've got in your life, I feel like, creates more opportunity for you to rise. And, you know, the felony conviction is a real Easy one, because I was just a punk kid doing the wrong things, you know, partying, got a girl pregnant in high school, she dropped out in the 10th grade, moved in with me and my family and a really 1500 foot house that we didn't have any room. Anyway, I'm now a total failure because I've gotten a girl pregnant in high school. And my dad, we had plans to go to the Navy and had plans to do all these things and go to college and, and then to add insult to injury that I get out of, I get out of high school, I graduate high school with a two month old in my hand, my graduation picture in my cap and gown is my oldest daughter Ashley, who's awesome now, amazing. But then, oh my God, my life is over. [00:08:15] Speaker A: You were like, you're a kid with a kid. [00:08:16] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm a kid with a kid. Which that's enough of a setback, you know, in most people's opinion, in mine at that time too. Then less than a year later, I get into a situation because I'm hanging out with the wrong people, doing the wrong things, just being a punk kid, still working hard, doing a job, being responsible, but just drinking and partying and acting like a wild man. And I end up in this wrong situation where a fight breaks out and I get engaged in it not by choice, but by survival, to be honest. And I get convicted because of a long story that we won't talk about here because we don't have time, but it was, it was one of those things that the worst case scenario that could have happened to me happened. The kid that was there was a judge's son and he was a drug addict. And when he got hurt, which he got really hurt, he got hit in the head with a hammer. He went to the hospital and he almost died because of his detox, not because of the injury. And a lot of bad stuff happened on that, but I got, I got aggravated assault and I served 10 years probation. And that all happened in a year timeframe when I just gotten a girl pregnant, just graduated high school. Now I got a felony conviction. So, you know, that, that, that, that closes a lot of doors, you know, that closes the door to the military, that closes the door to a lot of jobs. And you know, today's a little different. Back in 1988 when this happened, getting a job with a felon, you might as well have had leprosy. And people treated you different. They did. Nowadays you're like, oh, you're felon. You know, okay, I'm A felon, too. You know, it's like, not that way then. [00:10:01] Speaker A: So you had a lot of cards stacked against you. [00:10:03] Speaker B: Yeah, I did, and I. And I stacked them against myself. You know, I'm not the guy that blames anybody for my mistakes. They were my mistakes, and I owned it even then. I wasn't an entitled. Entitlement wasn't a word in the 80s, by the way. But it just. I wasn't that guy. I took full responsibility. I got two jobs. We lived in a crappy apartment, so I tried to find something to do because I had a job when I got the felony. I worked at a compact disc manufacturer. Those aren't even a thing anymore, but they were brand new then. And I was a factory worker making minimum wage, but I had benefits. And I worked night shift. And so I would go to work at 11 at night. I get off at 7 in the morning. I go straight to another job and work till, depending on the day, till noon, try to get some sleep. Had a family and kids. And then I'd go right back to work again at 11. And I didn't quit that job until I woke up one day and I walked in the break room with all these guys I worked with. I've been there five years, and I was on a good track, and I looked around, I was like, there's nobody here. I want to be like, nobody. So anyway, I quit that job, and here's where I get into the role. [00:11:15] Speaker A: Is like, into your next row. [00:11:17] Speaker B: Yeah. I was trying to find something that I felt like I'd already screwed my life up so bad that I'm at a bottom. I'm at rock bottom here. There's not much I can do that's worse than what I've already done. So let's take a big swing. Let's try something. What have I got to lose? And I feel like God really used because I turned my life over to him completely. I'm like, lord, I don't know how I've messed this up so bad at such a young age. I hate to hand you a big bag of crap, but here you go. And, yeah, it was. It was a big deal. And so the felony was. Was lifelong. There was no get. It was. It was unwavered probation, meaning I had to serve all 10 years. [00:12:01] Speaker A: Wow. [00:12:02] Speaker B: I had to pay a big fine. And. And you look back on that now, and it sounds like, no big deal where I'm at today. But then it was crushing, you know, it was strong. [00:12:12] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:12:13] Speaker A: How do you feel? Like, did you Kind of come into your faith kind of with that big bad crap of everything, with all those cards against you. And if so, do you feel like you owning your mistakes and not playing the victim mentality? Do you feel like that helped? How did that process kind of work in your mind on like taking recognition for what you had done and then using that into your faith, but then also kind of into like, I've got nothing to lose now. I'm going to go try to do something else that's actually fulfilling. [00:12:45] Speaker B: That's great, great question. I actually got. This is not, this is going to not flow with most churches and the way things go with a believer. But I got saved before I did any of that. I got a girl pregnant. Then I went to church. We didn't grow up in church, but I grew up with great parents who love people and modeled really good living and just honest, true caring. But we never really were in church and I went to church after having. There's a picture of me with a short sleeve dress shirt on and a tie. That's a really stupid look, by the way. But I'm standing there with my pregnant wife who's her pregnant girlfriend who's almost about to pop. And we went to church and I got saved that day. I went down front, had a bunch of dudes lay hands on me. I was all freaked out, like, what's going on here? But then I backslid right back into the world. But the difference is God. Then I look back on it now, he had a hold of me then and I made all these bad choices. But he. The cool thing about God is he has a way to do something no one else can. He can take all your terrible choices and all your bad decisions and turn them into a beautiful painting and use all those colors. See, without my felony, he wouldn't have that color. Without me getting this girl pregnant, he wouldn't have that color. I feel like all those choices I made that were bad were on me, but God used them for my good and in the end his glory. So, you know, I wouldn't be here today. I'm telling you, I would not be anywhere near where I'm at today, not even close. If I didn't have that felony conviction that changed my life, I couldn't be like all my buddies. I couldn't just go get those jobs and work for the city and work for, you know, all those things that were just normal, I couldn't do. So I had to find another path. And I was on reading the paper one day, I Had a job. I was reading the paper. That's how you find a job, by the way, in the 80s. No Internet, no email, nothing. I'm reading the paper, and I read the paper every week. I look for jobs every week. And I found one and I called him, and it was a recruiter, which I didn't even know what that was. And they said, come in and we want to talk to you. And I'm like, great. So I come in and they meet me, and I'm thinking, they're going to help me find a job. And they go, we'd like you to. We. Would you like to join us? And I'm like, it's straight commission, right? They're like, yeah. And I said, well, I'm already broke. I already make no money. Yeah. I'm making little nothing, and you want me to make zero. [00:15:15] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:15:15] Speaker B: And they're like, yeah, but we. We think you'd be good at this. I'm like, you know, you're on. I mean, I'm shortening it, of course, but I took the job. They never asked me if I was a felon. I never had to fill out anything. I didn't have to lie about it because I didn't lie when I filled out applications. And for all the felons out there, anybody that's a felon listening to this, they'll love this, because nobody that's not a felon gets this. When you're filling out a job application, it says, have you been convicted of a felony? Please explain. Gives you one line. You can't explain anything in one line. [00:15:49] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:15:49] Speaker B: So anyway, the. They hired me and I was. I'll never forget, I got hired in February 12th of 1995. [00:15:57] Speaker A: Wow. [00:15:58] Speaker B: You weren't even born, were you? [00:16:00] Speaker A: I was three. [00:16:01] Speaker B: Okay. [00:16:02] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:16:02] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:16:03] Speaker A: I was born in 92. [00:16:04] Speaker B: Yep. And I'm 25 years old. I'm not proud to say this, but I was on my second wife at that point because my first wife and I got married when. And got her pregnant and that didn't work out. And we were together four years and unfortunately departed that. And, you know, here I am, 25 years old, marriage number two, felony number one. And it's not a good resume, you know, but the thing I think I had then that a lot of people didn't have, and I look back on it was I was already pretty durable because I'd already been through a lot and I didn't call it. Yeah. Like, I was hard to kill at that point, you know, because I'm what Are you going to do to me, like what's really going to happen here that's going to be worse? I got a pretty high water mark of bad already. [00:16:48] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:16:49] Speaker B: So what are you going to do? You know? So it gives you a little bit of. Take some risks. [00:16:54] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [00:16:55] Speaker B: And the, the first year there, I was probably the worst. I was definitely not good at my job, but I hustled, worked hard, really invested all I had in it, you know, because it was an air conditioned job that was during the week and I had to work on the weekend. So that was like cool to me. [00:17:14] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:17:14] Speaker B: And then year number two, I. And I have to tell you this story because this is a big one. And by the way, if you got, you want me to just tell you this, you got a question. So 2-12-95, I started and I told my wife, I'm like, we're going to start tithing now. We have no money, but we're going to. There's only one place in the Bible, only one where God says to test me. You know, a lot of places he says, don't test me. But Malachi, chapter three, verses ten. And it's the last book of the Old Testament, but it's. And I'll never forget it because I've quoted it and I've memorized it. It's bring the tithe into the storehouse that there may be food in my house, which is bring a tenth of your income to, you know, in our storehouse is the church today. Right. And see, test me at this, says the Lord, and see if I will not throw open for you the windows of heaven and pour out a blessing so great you cannot contain it. So I'm basically like God, you're on. I have this right now. So if I fall, I go to here and I have been tithing since that day. Now here's the story and I really believe this is part of the success. And I know it's not some business cool thing, but it's true. I started tithing and I made, I made less than $20,000 my first year there. I was raising a family on that. [00:18:38] Speaker C: Yep. [00:18:39] Speaker B: And living in a trailer house and driving an old beat up truck. My tithe in 1996 was more than I earned in 1995. [00:18:49] Speaker C: Wow. [00:18:50] Speaker B: That's God. Yeah, I made $212,000 in 1996. One year later, one year later and my tithe was $20,000 or more. [00:19:00] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:19:00] Speaker B: So God showed me quickly, you, you know, he keeps his word and it. And it's not a math formula like that. It's just. That's what happened with me. [00:19:11] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:19:12] Speaker B: And, you know, I also was the worst performer at my company the first year I was there, and I was the number one guy the second year I was there. [00:19:23] Speaker C: Yep. [00:19:24] Speaker B: And I maintained pretty much that status. You know, there was a few years I wasn't number one, but I was there 15 years, and I was, you know, I was a number. I was a lead producer there for most of my career and blew past all the people that. That, you know, there's a lot of numbers in recruiting that people consider successful, you know, and at that time, it was a. A range of, you know, if you do 250,000 to 400,000 a year in billings, you're like, top of the heap. I never did those numbers ever. I went the first year, like, at a hundred thousand or less, and I did 545,000 in my second year. So I feel like God helped me leapfrog over all this normalcy and put me at a level that's like, we're going to take you here now. Let's see if you can handle it. [00:20:16] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:20:16] Speaker A: Would you consider that we've talked about a lot and we talked about a lot when we work out the Bhag, the big hairy, audacious goal. [00:20:24] Speaker B: Yep. [00:20:24] Speaker A: Were you kind of in that mindset during that time of, like, when you reached that over half a million, you kind of skyrocketed past even what people defined as success then. Were you familiar with the Bhag? Did you kind of use that model to set it? [00:20:41] Speaker B: Yeah. The Bhag was brought up to me by. The company I worked for was K. Bassman. And Bob Bassman, who was the founder, was older at that point. I mean, I'm in. I'm 25 years old. He's probably my age. You know, he might have been 60 even. And he's the one that introduced the Bhag to me. And he told me to set a BHAG, and I threw out 500 grand and I did 545. So Bob was an interesting guy. He was very. He wasn't a recruiter, but he knew how to inspire people and motivate them. And he made me aim higher because he was like, aim here. Even if you miss, you still did better than. You know. It's a simple concept of, you know, if you go, you and me go try to climb Mount Everest tomorrow. Well, we may not make the summit. [00:21:29] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:21:29] Speaker B: But I bet you we get higher than we've ever gotten in our lives because we're trying to do the biggest thing ever. So I think in business, and I really think also success is really different than failure. Like, I'm convinced a lot of people want success, but they don't want to pay the price to get there. Everybody wants a skyscraper life, but most of them have a chicken coop foundation. Okay. If you've ever looked at a really big building, it's got a foundation that goes way deep in the ground. [00:22:03] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:22:03] Speaker B: To hold that building. [00:22:04] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:22:04] Speaker B: And I think a lot of people don't want to go through the struggle to get the foundation part. They just want the building. [00:22:09] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:22:09] Speaker B: And. And in life, I feel like if you're going to be really successful in business long term, not a, not a one shot wonder or one year thing. That was a fluke. You got to have the character to handle it, you know? [00:22:22] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:22:23] Speaker B: Chuck Swindoll said for every hundred men that can handle failure, which by the way, not, not all men can handle failure, but for the 100 men that can, only one of them can handle success. Much bigger test. And I feel in great. I'm very, very grateful that because of my stupidity and my bad choices, God used all that to forge me, you know, at a young age that made me able to take the success that I had and continue it and not let it ruin me. [00:22:55] Speaker A: Because who knows? What if you didn't have those and you just gained success, how much of a. Not saying you would have, but like, what failures dirt bags, you know, person could you have been? Would you have been? But you had the success. But you know, as we've learned, I've learned, and you've been alive a lot longer than me and we've talked about a lot, is that success isn't always a number. A money number. [00:23:20] Speaker B: That's right. [00:23:21] Speaker A: It can be. Longevity, life, health, relationships, you know, time, space. There's a lot of those. [00:23:31] Speaker B: All those are actually, you know, now I kind of made this up. Most things I steal from other people, but this one is mine. [00:23:38] Speaker A: Nice. [00:23:39] Speaker B: My definition of success is to have all the things that money can't buy and most of the things it can't. So I like money, but I feel like if you just have money and you don't have all those other things, it's like that Easter bunny chocolate bunny. When you. That you get it as a kid and you crack it open, there's nothing there. You're like the hollow, hollow chocolate bunny. You know, it's like that's what life is with money only it's like, man, it disappoints. But if you have relationships, friendships, faith, you can look in the mirror and say, hey, I'm not a. I'm not a dirtbag, you know, and I'm making better choices. We all are. We're all flawed, by the way. If you're not flawed, you're not qualified to be a human, so you got to be a robot or something else. But you were all flawed. But you. You got to have all those things that money can't buy to really be able to enjoy success. Like, success really isn't just having a bunch of money, because if you're not enjoying that, then. Then what do you really have? You know, not to quote a stoic, but I just thought of this. You know who Epictetus is? He's one of the. If you ever follow the Daily Stoic by Ryan, he's great. And then there's a lot of Marcus Aurelius. But Epictetus was a slave. And I'm not going to tell you the whole story, but he was a slave that became a philosopher, and he was in Rome. And he said, it's not what you have. It's not what you have, but what you enjoy that constitutes your abundance. So repeat, it's not what you have, but what you enjoy that constitutes your abundance. So if you look at your life and you're like, man, what am I really enjoying? That's the. That's your abundance. [00:25:28] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:25:29] Speaker B: You know, you got, you got, you got 50 million in the bank and it's digits on the screen. I'm not saying you're bad shape, but are you enjoying that? [00:25:38] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:25:39] Speaker B: You know, and back to Mark Batterson, he said, and I learned all these things. I took all these things as a young guy, and I've tried to practice them my whole life, and I've. I've succeeded at some points and failed at others, but having experiences to me is far better than possessions. [00:25:59] Speaker C: Yep. [00:26:00] Speaker B: You know, and I feel like those are the things that make you an interesting person as you get older. It's not, let me show you how much money I have or the cool car I'm driving. Yeah, that's what happens when you get older, by the way, Michael, like when I was your age, I'm like, let's go slay the dragon and put some money in the bank. You know, I get that. But I think over time, you'll, you'll, you'll change a little bit in your, Your focus, for sure. [00:26:23] Speaker A: And I think, yeah, chapters of life, like, I'm Building a family, like, literally, we've got another kiddo on the way. I haven't shared that, like, big publicly. I think Sophie will be okay with that and growing a family, growing businesses. I'm like, man, it's. I feel like I'm burning the candle at both ends, but also going back to what you said, like, and obviously, having a wife that is anchored and very open and honest and is not afraid to punch me in the face with her words and also with her love is bringing me of enjoying it, like, enjoying the process. Going back to the abundance of what you just said, it's like, man, not forgetting why I'm doing it, what we're doing it for, who we're doing it for, who we want to impact. Yep. And that's a big kind of realization that I've even come to over these past couple years is like, man, I'm in this fitness and wellness space. I think I've told you this, but it's like, what I really love doing is having these intimate relationships and conversations with people, and this is just the avenue that I'm. I'm. I feel like God's put me on to do that through and enjoying that and just kind of letting that path take me where it's going to take me. [00:27:31] Speaker B: Yeah, you're unique, man. I mean, I know this isn't about bragging on you for your podcast here, but I'm going to tell you, like, you're. You're an entrepreneur at heart, and you want. You're always looking for, what can I do better? What can I improve on? You're pushing the limits of an industry. Honestly, that's a tough one to, you know, to do that with, and you've done a really good job, I think, and I'm excited. I believe in you, and I really believe you're going to. You're going to achieve greater than you even realize today because of your. [00:28:04] Speaker C: Your. [00:28:05] Speaker B: Your motive is right. You know, your. Your intention is good, and your focus is on the right things. You know, you're not out there just trying to hustle a buck. You're out there trying to really help people. And I feel like, you know, that makes all the difference in the world, you know? [00:28:19] Speaker C: Yep. [00:28:21] Speaker A: Not every idea is a great idea, but the, you know, the thought, the true meaning behind trying to create it and bring it to life is there. And like you said, like, I'm not just trying to just throw spaghetti and continue to see what sticks, but really seeing, like, I think there's a lot going back to you working through and owning your mistakes and owning, you know, how then God's reformed those and brought redemption to them. I also think there's a lot of value in just taking the ownership and the initiative and the proactiveness that like, yes, God has a path for us, but he also gives us some boundaries and some freedom to really nurture to and kind of find where he's trying to take us. And that's part of that relational piece with him. That's part of the faith piece. And so, yeah, I think that that's hard. And some people, not everyone's meant to be an entrepreneur. And there's. See, everyone has gifts and talents and that's been hard. I think I've shared on here before. That's been one of a hard piece for me, is really trying to do my best to care for my people, my clients, our business, and help allow position, opportunity for people to flourish and, and grow into. But also being okay and realizing that that may not be the right seat for them and how can I help navigate that? And a lot of that's just patience, peace and trust that like, okay, God, I feel like I'm doing what I'm, what I'm, what I'm meant to do here, but I need your help. [00:29:43] Speaker B: Right. Which by the way, I want to get. I got some bad news for you and good news. You're never going to be in a place or you should. You should never be in a place where you don't need his help. [00:29:54] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:29:55] Speaker B: You remember, if dependence is the goal on him, then weakness is an advantage. It's true. Because the world teaches you to be your own man, Be tough, kick ass, you know, take names, make money, slay the dragon. Those are all great things to hear when you're in sales. Because I was, I've been in sales my whole life. Right. It's a competition, man. I'm going to beat you. But in reality, success, real success comes, I believe, from being like, you know, man, I don't have it all figured out. Yeah, I'm not going to read my own mail, you know, I'm not going to have my new book on humility. I'm going to have a book signing on it so everybody can get a signed copy of that. It's kind of counterintuitive, right. I'm going to trust in God. And when you become successful, that can go away because you're like, hey, I got it. Thanks, God. Appreciate your help. Peace out. No, what happens honestly is you become more dependent when the closer you get to him. The more that's what you want and the more you enjoy your life. God has a way of teaching you how to enjoy everything in your life. Because by the way he created it, he knows. So work faith. You know, you know, this. Maybe this is a little strong, but. And we can edit this out if we need to, Michael. But still, I mean, sex is one of my favorite things with my wife. I mean, I wouldn't trade that for all the money in the world. [00:31:25] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:31:25] Speaker B: And he created that. Right. But he gives you the ability to enjoy all those things that you do. And I feel like that's the real life of it. It's not the end game of getting to a certain place. [00:31:37] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:31:38] Speaker B: It's the process of enjoying it along the way. And, and that's what I'm trying to do a better job of as I get older because I'm not quite in the two minute warning of the game, but I'm probably at least in the top of the fourth quarter, let's say, you know, hey, hopefully, maybe, maybe, maybe middle of the third quarter. Let's go there. Yeah. [00:31:53] Speaker A: I mean, Lord willing, gosh, like I used to get 35, 40 more years. That'd be crazy. [00:31:59] Speaker B: Well, there's a chance if things go well, I got a granddaughter who started college in May. I might be getting. I might get to great, great grand granddad if I hang around long enough. [00:32:09] Speaker A: That's what happens sometimes when you have a kid at. [00:32:11] Speaker B: Raised in the country or. There you go. [00:32:13] Speaker A: Well, man, I think that could possibly tie into what I want to ask you next is, and correct me if I'm wrong here, you hit that huge milestone of over the 500,000, didn't. The next year you win, you hit even bigger than that. Like you almost. Is that right? [00:32:28] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:32:29] Speaker A: But then after that, I don't know the exact years, but you've. You now have your own recruiting firm that is very successful. It's boutique, it's small, but man, it. It's got some punches and does a really good job. So could you tie in what'd you do that next year after you hit the 500 and then what kind of led you to starting your own firm and kind of riding your path? [00:32:51] Speaker B: Deal. That's great, man. That's great. Yeah. So yeah, second year did 5:40, which in 1996 was a lot. Yeah. I mean it. And then the following year did right at a million. [00:33:06] Speaker A: That's crazy. So by yourself? [00:33:08] Speaker B: Well, no, I had people now. I started hiring people at the company. I worked For K. Bassman. And I had a couple people working with me. I started to grow a little team because I needed the help. [00:33:16] Speaker C: Yep. [00:33:17] Speaker B: And then went from. So went really the scale of it, and this is what's great about this is great for anybody to hear is the scale went from 500, which was already big. Now I could have said, man, you made it. I'm good. [00:33:32] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:33:32] Speaker B: And that's that level of the mountain that I could have hung around on him and just fine. But that wasn't the plan. And so the next year did more. Did a million, which was a big leap, I mean a huge leap. And then did. Don't know the exact numbers, but it was somewhere between like a million 2 and 2 million for the next 10 years in a row. [00:33:50] Speaker A: Wow. [00:33:51] Speaker B: And you know, that had never been done at the company I worked for. I'm sure now they've done it multiple times, but at that time it had not. And so everybody thought at one point they're like, hey, you got the secret sauce? I'm like, no man, I don't. I'm just working hard and taking care of people and trying to do the right thing. Like I'm not. I didn't have anything magic, but I felt like really what my secret weapon was then was I had God's confidence and trust. I had trusted in him in some way that I knew he was going to take care of it. Like I was continuing to tithe and I was continuing to give. And you know, I'm not saying everybody has to do what I did, but you can't out give. God, I'd love you to try, but it will not, you will not succeed at that. And I just became that guy that was like, man, I'm loving this. But I probably wasn't mature enough then to know exactly what to do if I. If you took my 55 year old self and put me back in that place, yeah, I'd have a lot more money, you know what I mean? But what I think is great to hear is we set limits on ourselves. We tell ourselves what we're going to do and that's what we do. Or less. I didn't really have a limit on myself then because I was new. I didn't know I couldn't do that. No one told me I couldn't do that. I just did it and I felt like it raised the bar for everyone. So now all of a sudden once somebody runs a four minute mile, everybody's going to try to do it because they think it's Possible. So I feel like what was really good and it taught me a lesson for the rest of my life is like, hey, man, the only person putting limits on you is you. You know, God owns everything. If you know, you want to limit yourself, go right ahead, but that's on you, because there's no limit. There's no limit to your. Your enjoyment of life. There's no limit to your success. There's no limit to your. To your ability to do so many different things. Your character, though, has to be able to handle your success. So that's where I feel like I've been praying and always been like, lord, don't. Don't let me. Don't let me get so good at anything. To where I feel like I don't need you and I turn into a bag, you know, because it can happen, and I don't want that to happen. So I feel like the scaling of it. For anybody listening that's in sales or trying to start a new job or is trying to figure out their lives on, man, what, you know, they're just barely getting by and they're. I promise you, you're looking at your life through a lens of. All I need is this, and I'll be okay. And I'd say scratch that. Quit trying to get the next closest thing to make life okay. Set your goal so high that without God or a miracle, you can't hit it and see what happens. You'll be shocked at what you'll do. And I feel like that's the, you know, that's a key in life in general. And you've done a great job. Like you're trying to push the limits and make things happen in ways that most people in your kind of profession wouldn't do. And I, And I really love that about you. I applaud you for that. And I think in my business, I, you know, I've been doing it 29 years now, and I started my own company in 2010, which. The market crashed in 2008. You might have been in high school when that happened. [00:37:21] Speaker A: I was. [00:37:22] Speaker B: And your dad. Your. Your dad and mom probably didn't tell you about it, right? You just kind of lived through it. Yeah, but it was rough. It was the roughest time I've ever had in business. And I. And it's. It's one thing to be successful. It's one thing to fail and never be successful, but once you're successful and then you're not, oh, it, it sucks real bad. Like, you miss it. You. You're like, oh my gosh, I forgot how much I enjoyed and the market crash, really. My, my, my revenue and Sunk the whole company's revenue, sunk the whole industry's revenue. And 2008, nine were really rough years. And then in 10, I started my own because I, you know, in short, I look back at my career at K. Bassman and I spent 15 years there and I learned a lot and they were great people and I, but I left because of my, the leadership and I just didn't agree anymore. And. [00:38:14] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:38:15] Speaker B: But I started my company in the worst possible time with, you know, I had to. And I don't mind, you know, I don't mind saying I had to dig deep into my retirement and I had to dig deep into my finances just to stay alive. [00:38:30] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:38:31] Speaker B: And you know what it did? God, man, I'm, I'm, I'm going to be. I'm liable to shout enjoyment on this. As much as that sucked. I was 40 years old. It made me remember. [00:38:44] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:38:44] Speaker B: How tough I am. It made me remember the grit I learned in, in my 20s, 20 years ago. And I'm like, it's almost like I just thought of this analogy. It's like Forrest Gump when he's walking with those leg braces on and then he starts to run and they fall off and he looks kind of sideways like, oh man, check this out. And then guess what he did. He just ran around the whole country. So at that moment, it was really, really hard. And I was broke and the market was down and had a non compete. I had to buy out, which wasn't big, but it still was a lot. Things weren't working in my favor, but it reminded me, I'm like, this is who you are, brother. Like, you've been built for this. Like, you need this tough spot. You need to suffer. The only time you've ever learned anything is when you've been struggling your tail off. And we're going to do that again. And now I've done more revenue. I've done more revenue on my own for the last 15 years without really any support. You know, I've had a few people work for me and they still do, but I've done more revenue since I left there every year than I ever did while I was there. [00:39:53] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:39:53] Speaker B: And that's not what I expected, but it is, it is fantastic, you know, awesome. It's been fun and I still love what I do. You know, it's, it's not easy. It's not for everybody. But I do have to get up every day and be faster than the slowest zebra. So that's what you do. [00:40:10] Speaker C: Yep. [00:40:10] Speaker A: You've said that one a few times. I've heard that one. [00:40:12] Speaker B: You probably heard everything I've said already, more than once. [00:40:15] Speaker A: That's awesome. And so how is that running? Kind of, I say, running your own show. I mean, respectfully, when you were at the top of Cave Aspen, you were running a team and had a big group. What has led you or stopped you from building an empire yourself? Like you've, you've led multiple people before. I know your wife works with you, your mother in law works with you, and then you got one other guy, maybe two, that work with you now. And I've kind of picked your brain on that before. Like, why not build a Kittelson K. Bassman? [00:40:46] Speaker B: Yep. Great question. Great question. I. I think one is I'm. I left K. Bassman. Not sure I could do that. Not sure I wanted to do that. I love that everybody else likes to hire people because I need that to happen in my business. I'm a recruiter, but I personally don't want a bunch of people working for me. And I don't want to use this analogy loosely, but I don't really have a business that I built in my mind to sell down the road or scale to a certain level or just become. I wanted to just be great at what I did and work with the people that I wanted to work with. And that's how I started. And it's still relatively that same size. I've got a. I do have a guy work for me who's great. And I got my daughter working for me and my. I mean it's family business seems, but. But I don't think I wanted that because I knew I wouldn't enjoy it as much as I. And my ego would enjoy it. And I might make more money. But I didn't think I'd really like it as much as me being in the game. I like being in the middle of the deal. And I honestly can say that I'm really, really good at it, you know, because I got 29 years experience at it now. But I really enjoy it still. And I think if I didn't enjoy that, I'd have built something different. I would have built my. I'd have built it so I don't have to do it. [00:42:12] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:42:13] Speaker B: But I really think I like doing it. And it makes, it keeps me sharp. Like if I built this big company that could run without me, that would probably be financially better for Me, But I don't know if it would keep me as sharp as I want to be. Like, having to stay in the fight on the front line. Doing this job has made me a better man, has made me a better hunter and a better relationship builder, and it keeps me sharp, you know, so. And maybe I'm just a sellout and didn't want to do it because I didn't think I could, but I. I really just. I built what I wanted and not what the world said I should. [00:42:53] Speaker C: Yeah, that's good. [00:42:55] Speaker A: I think something you touched on that. Not that you skimmed over, but that just kind of caught me that I haven't really thought about. And I've thought more of now that being a business owner, entrepreneur is that you, like, of course you want people to be able to hire you because they need to hire people, but you don't necessarily maybe want to hire to build a massive team for yourself. I think there's. I've never really thought about this until now. Being a business owner is that you don't have to have a team to work with people. The goal is to have some sort of product or service that clients are purchasing or doing. And something I just touched on that, like, has really come to life for me is like, man, I love the relational piece. Yeah. I love the relationships with my team, but my ongoing conversations with the clients I see every day or what really kind of brings that consistent life and excitement and, you know, like, just peace and like, that sharpness that you kind of talked about. So it's like you're. You're still making a big impact with people, but it's in the. In the realm of being in the deals, working with the clients. [00:44:01] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:44:01] Speaker A: And like, in that way, I still. [00:44:03] Speaker B: Get juice out of doing that. [00:44:05] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:44:05] Speaker B: And I think if I didn't, I'd do something different. [00:44:09] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:44:09] Speaker B: But I. I really enjoy just like you. I mean, I really feel like in anybody in business that's listening or anybody that's listening, that's trying to get a nugget or something out of this and go, what do I. What can I do different? You know, never say no to an opportunity to meet somebody new. Just don't. You're like, well, I don't have time. Well, how important are you? You know, obviously you're not as successful as you want to be, so shut up and go meet the guy. So it's kind of like, you know, you never know what something will be. You know, I feel like a lot of times in my life anyway, if I Said, no, I look, you know, you all, you hear the story all the time. You're like, hey, you're an overnight success. Well, that's 20, 29 years experience. Okay? Nobody's an overnight success. But how they became that way, even they are surprised about the path that it took. Well, if I hadn't talked to that guy, if I hadn't met that person that I really wasn't interested in, really didn't know how that was going to go. He connected me with so and so, and they connected me with that. And so I feel like God gives you the next step. The Bible says it's a light unto your feet and a lamp into your path. And I don't know if you know this, but back in the day, they used to wear like little lights on their feet so they could see their next step. It's not a 300,000 candle power spotlight showing you the way. It's the next step. And sometimes that next step is meeting somebody that you don't know that you're just going to meet to help invest in. You do a great job at that. Those kind of connections and relationships you can look at back down the road. And some are, you know, hey, man, they're friends, they never, whatever. But that, that is how people become successful, in my opinion, is they don't. They don't act like they know the answer to everything. They go out with. They go out with, with an interest and a curiosity. Curiosity will make you a lot of money if you take it to its end. [00:46:06] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:46:07] Speaker B: And we all think we know the answer to everything. Our egos are too big. We think we already know. We think you know, when you're green, you're growing. When you're ripe, you're dying. So if you think you know everything, well, you're. You're kind of already on the death path. [00:46:19] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:46:19] Speaker B: But if you stay green, which is hard to do when you're good at something, but if you practice staying green, man, you're always going to find something new that you didn't know. And that's the exciting part for sure. [00:46:31] Speaker C: Yeah, Yeah. [00:46:32] Speaker B: I don't know if that answers your question at all, but don't be afraid to meet new people, no matter what you think you can do for them or they can do for you, because you never know. [00:46:41] Speaker A: Totally agree. Yeah. That's what I've really been enjoying about the gym build process and building this gym build business is like, man. So it's. All of this business is growing from building relationships, building relationships with People that are in front of the type of clientele that we want to work with and have an opportunity to go out of bat with and present ourselves to. And that type of, you know, extension or arm of the relationship that the person that I directly connected with being an extension of that trust and likeness and respect is something that I've like, really take seriously and enjoy. And it's cool to just be able to like create this, these branches of connections and synergy and relationships that just create opportunity and success and positive interaction and reviews and service and like that's. At the end of the day, that's the goal. [00:47:37] Speaker B: And you never know. You, you'll look back on your life. I promise this will happen. We all do this. You'll look back on your life and you'll be surprised at the relationship that you didn't think was going to become something, became something great. [00:47:53] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:47:53] Speaker B: The relationship you thought was going to be the home run, knock it out of the park, make you a ton of money, everything was going to be great. Turned out to not be. You know, it's the, not to quote a bunch of old, of old poems, but it's the old take the road less traveled, right? I mean if you look at, you look down the road, if I, if I had a 20 year old standing next to me and I'm like, okay, I'm gonna give you two choices. I'm kind of making all this up on the fly. By the way, this real straight road, it's an interstate, it's got six lanes. It's straight down there and you can see all the way to the end of it. You can take that road or you can take this one here to the left and you can only see about 10 yards and then it kind of disappears in the bushes and there's really this, this one lane little trail. It's not even something you could put two people on. Which one are you taking? Well, that straight road is obviously the safer, secure, predictable path. But that's the wrong road. Take the road less traveled and go. And the one that it gets in the bushes, you have no idea what's around that corner. That's what keeps life interesting, you know? Yeah, I got to, you want to kind of tell you one short time. [00:49:04] Speaker A: We got, we got about 5, 10 more. [00:49:06] Speaker B: Why don't you ask me any other questions you got? [00:49:08] Speaker A: That's all I had. That's all I got. [00:49:09] Speaker B: So I'll tell this one story and this I think will resonate hopefully with people as a, as kind of that two Roads. [00:49:15] Speaker C: Yep. [00:49:16] Speaker B: I got a couple. Friend of ours, and I won't mention the names or anything, but this. My wife's been friends with these people for, you know, since she was in school. And the husbands and I are friends. And, you know, he's an engineer, and he's. He's a really good guy, but we were drinking one night at his house, and, you know, he was looking at me. He might have had more than me that particular night. And he's looking at me sideways, and I'm like, what's wrong? He goes, man, it's just not fair. I go, what's not fair? He goes, you. He pointed to my wife in there. He's like, you know, you got that, you know, and, you know, you're. You know, you didn't graduate college and you don't have a degree, and you've made all these crazy decisions, and look, you're. Look where you're at. And I go, man. And he may have said it in a bit of an envious way that he was upset about his own life. Right? [00:50:06] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:50:07] Speaker B: And I'm like, well, first of all, man, whoever told your life was fair is wrong. There's nothing fair about it. Fair is not even in the. That's not even in the discussion. [00:50:15] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:50:16] Speaker B: The differences are I took a lot of risks that you didn't take. You did exactly what you set out to do. You got your degree, you got a great job, you went exactly down the path you set, and you succeeded at it, and you should be blessed and thankful for that. I could be face down in the ditch a heroin addict, and then you wouldn't want to trade places with me at all. Yeah, I had just as easy. I could have just as easily been that as I am where I'm at, and that's a risk. So I feel like if you're looking at your life and you're not happy where you are, you're not taking enough risks. Now, I know if you're married, your wife will be like, please don't take that risk. So you got to be careful about them. But if you're. If you go through a year of your life and you haven't taken a bunch of chances, you wasted that year. You've got to take chances and you gotta bet on yourself. You gotta turn down things that are good for the better. And if you do that, you'll panic about it at the moment, but you'll be super grateful you did it later. [00:51:19] Speaker A: Yeah, I think that's a. That's a great summary. And Wrap up. Honestly, like, man, I appreciate your conversation and you coming on here. And also, you need to give a shout out. You and your brother in law recently just started a podcast. What's the name of it? [00:51:32] Speaker B: Yeah, man, thank you. It's. Yeah, me and my brother Brian. Brother in law Brian. He's my brother. Yeah, we. It's called Two Men in the Book. And it's. It's just him and I. It's funny. We've been doing. We've been talking for two years on the phone. We have. We lead a Bible study now in a men's group. And he's. He's an unbelievable guy. Unbelievable guy. But we, we. We've been on the phone having conversations every week for like two years, and he's the one that's like, man, we need to start a podcast and start recording these calls. So the idea was, hey, man, if nobody listens, we're going to be doing this anyway. [00:52:06] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:52:07] Speaker B: So let's record it. [00:52:08] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:52:08] Speaker B: And now we, we. We just put out our second episode and we're really fired up about it. I mean, we, we got like, you know, 17 followers. But yeah, we don't care about that. We are just loving the opportunity. I just like sitting in front of a mic with headphones on. It's so fun. [00:52:21] Speaker A: Yeah, it is. [00:52:22] Speaker B: But, yeah, thank you, man. Two Men in the Book. It's a. It's a good. It's been a lot of fun so far. Yeah. [00:52:27] Speaker A: Oh, man, thank you so much for coming on episode 15 with the prop Perform podcast. And honestly, if you guys ever want to connect with Mike, like, as you can see, he' book. And I'd say you kept it pretty pg. I appreciate that. [00:52:39] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:52:39] Speaker B: But I didn't want to. [00:52:41] Speaker A: No, but seriously, Mike is an open book and he's got an open heart. And obviously, as you guys can see, just, you know, from trial and tribulation to redemption and just the consistency of his pushback to the Lord, like, who he is that you guys are seeing and hearing is who he is in real life. And so I would highly suggest reaching out and connecting with Mike because he will have a conversation with you and you will walk away with some nuggets. So I appreciate you, man. [00:53:05] Speaker B: Man, thank you for having on. [00:53:07] Speaker A: Yeah. And your consistent support and trust in me in regards to training, but obviously, just, man, there's so much value that I've gained from our relationship with our conversations and the wisdom that you've shared. It's. It's just been a joy. [00:53:20] Speaker B: Probably gotten you in trouble with your wife once in a while, but it's still time. Yeah, I'm sure it has. I'm sure it has. She. [00:53:24] Speaker A: She knows you well enough now that she really likes you. [00:53:27] Speaker B: Yeah, man. That's awesome. [00:53:28] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:53:29] Speaker A: Thank you so much. [00:53:30] Speaker B: Thank you for having me. You're doing great stuff. Keep it up and, you know, hopefully. Hopefully we'll grow old together. [00:53:38] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. [00:53:39] Speaker B: I mean, me faster than you, but still, heck, yes. [00:53:42] Speaker A: Amen. Well, thank you, guys. Y'all can find this episode on Apple Podcast, Apple podcast, Spotify, and YouTube. We'll see you guys at episode 16 next. See ya.